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 Post subject: Happy (In)dependence Day 2012
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:40 am 
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I'm a few hours late with this as it's no longer July 4th...anywhere in the world :P , but I've been busy with family get-togethers most of the day. So there!

Sigh...being honest, I must also confess that in light of recent events, as I watched the fireworks display over the state capitol building last night, for the first time in my life I felt my heart sink a little. It's now become irrevocably clear to me that, truly, the country whose birth we celebrated yesterday no longer really exists. And in the most technical, literal sense, it hasn't for some time, but we took a big step away from it last week. There may still be a chance to return at least in some part to the core principles which guided us for the better part of the past two centuries, but...right now, that's an open question. I look at the people who occupy elected office and other positions of power, and I really don't see in any of them the inclination, let alone the strength of will, to do the monumentally difficult work that such a goal will require.

I'm sorry to be such a killjoy, but I really can't bring myself to put a smiley face on that.

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 Post subject: Re: Happy (In)dependence Day 2012
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:45 am 
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Quote:
It's now become irrevocably clear to me that, truly, the country whose birth we celebrated yesterday no longer really exists.


This reminds me of that old philosophical dilemma about a ship that undergoes so many repairs and renovations that it's impossible to tell whether it truly is the original ship anymore, or an entirely new one. In this regard, you are right. The modern United States is nothing like the United States of your forefathers, who inherited enormous (and perhaps more serious) problems of their own. War damage and deaths from the Revolution (and the second British attempt in 1812), divisions over slavery, slavery itself, lack of rights for people without a pale complexion (or a penis), a rapidly expanding frontier that threatened lawlessness and more wars with indigenous Americans. An uncertain future....

Today you have entirely different problems. An economic crisis that won't go away, incompetant (perhaps even dangerous) leadership, thousands dead from misadventures in Iraq and (to a lesser extent) Afghanistan, growing competition and much less patience from the rest of the world (especially China), a crippled education and health system that is churning out more unemployed and failing thousands of patients, a dysfunctional economic system, immigration. An uncertain future....

You might notice the USA hasn't collapsed. Despite all the disasters: the Revolution could have ended with the USA (and modern democracy) snuffed out in its infancy. The Civil War could have ended with two seperate countries that hated each others guts. The Great Depression could have ruined the country forever. The USA might not have intervened in the two World Wars and become a superpower. The USA (and the world at large) could have lost the Cold War in a blaze of nuclear fire.

You've weathered worse than this. By all accounts, this current mess is nothing to you. Those dipshits you have in government need to be reminded who the American people are. And the American people need to remember who THEY are as well. Sure you stumble and fall from time to time. Things may seem hopeless. But my dad drilled in me a saying: if you don't succeed, try, try and try again. Because if you stop trying, then these self-satisfied fucks in office can and will trample over the rights and privileges your people have fought and died for over 200 years to attain. And things will continue to get worse.

I can't believe I'm saying all this. I'm not even American! :lol: I guess I can't stand you not being your usual self-assured, argumentative self Corey. :P


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 Post subject: Re: Happy (In)dependence Day 2012
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:59 am 
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CWS wrote:
I'm sorry to be such a killjoy, but I really can't bring myself to put a smiley face on that.
Well, at least now I don't feel bad about forgetting to make a banner this year ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Happy (In)dependence Day 2012
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:05 am 
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I've been meaning to reply to this for several weeks, but I've been in a bit of a funk lately, as you've probably noticed.
snowman1989 wrote:
Quote:
It's now become irrevocably clear to me that, truly, the country whose birth we celebrated yesterday no longer really exists.
This reminds me of that old philosophical dilemma about a ship that undergoes so many repairs and renovations that it's impossible to tell whether it truly is the original ship anymore, or an entirely new one. In this regard, you are right. The modern United States is nothing like the United States of your forefathers, who inherited enormous (and perhaps more serious) problems of their own. War damage and deaths from the Revolution (and the second British attempt in 1812), divisions over slavery, slavery itself, lack of rights for people without a pale complexion (or a penis), a rapidly expanding frontier that threatened lawlessness and more wars with indigenous Americans. An uncertain future....

Today you have entirely different problems. An economic crisis that won't go away, incompetant (perhaps even dangerous) leadership, thousands dead from misadventures in Iraq and (to a lesser extent) Afghanistan, growing competition and much less patience from the rest of the world (especially China), a crippled education and health system that is churning out more unemployed and failing thousands of patients, a dysfunctional economic system, immigration. An uncertain future....

You might notice the USA hasn't collapsed. Despite all the disasters: the Revolution could have ended with the USA (and modern democracy) snuffed out in its infancy. The Civil War could have ended with two seperate countries that hated each others guts. The Great Depression could have ruined the country forever. The USA might not have intervened in the two World Wars and become a superpower. The USA (and the world at large) could have lost the Cold War in a blaze of nuclear fire.

You've weathered worse than this. By all accounts, this current mess is nothing to you. Those dipshits you have in government need to be reminded who the American people are. And the American people need to remember who THEY are as well. Sure you stumble and fall from time to time. Things may seem hopeless. But my dad drilled in me a saying: if you don't succeed, try, try and try again. Because if you stop trying, then these self-satisfied fucks in office can and will trample over the rights and privileges your people have fought and died for over 200 years to attain. And things will continue to get worse.

I can't believe I'm saying all this. I'm not even American! :lol: I guess I can't stand you not being your usual self-assured, argumentative self Corey. :P
I appreciate your sentiments, and I really, truly hope you're right.

However, I think relatively few people, even over here, fully understand or appreciate the far-reaching implications of last month's Supreme Court decision. That decision asserted that the federal government now has the authority to arbitrarily coerce citizens into buying a product or service from a third party, under penalty of law, as long as they (the government) call it a "tax".

This is power they were never intended to wield under the Constitution. It's power they have never even been thought to possess before, and now the law says they do, thanks to five unelected justices. And if you think the scope of this authority is limited to health insurance, I'm here to tell you, it's not.

Even if you trust the current administration not to abuse this power (and you shouldn't), think about what other inventive statists could do with it in the future.

This is the single most egregious power grab I've ever seen in this country. It's a major erosion of personal freedom that will affect every single living American citizen.

So yeah, that has me dispirited.

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