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 Post subject: Re: Rebuild of Evangelion (SPOILER WARNING)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:25 am 
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Actually, it was just said before doing Eva, not before Gainax. Spokesperson isn't the right word, either, I forget what he called him. This whole bit wasn't spoken of in any way to say Anno was a looney or anything like that, just as a basis of a lot of the themes of Eva.

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 Post subject: Re: Rebuild of Evangelion (SPOILER WARNING)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:40 am 
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Zanth wrote:
Actually, it was just said before doing Eva, not before Gainax.
Well...you said:
Zanth wrote:
I did hear something at Anime Detour that actually made a LOT of stuff about the TV series make a lot more sense. I had previously been unaware that before joining Gainax Hideki Ano had been like a PR type guy for some wacked out cult in Japan that felt that the only way to clense the sins of the world was to eradicate all mankind.
So you can see how I may have gotten the wrong idea. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Rebuild of Evangelion (SPOILER WARNING)
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:37 am 
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Yes, yes I can, that was my bad.

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 Post subject: Re: Rebuild of Evangelion (SPOILER WARNING)
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 3:07 am 
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Well, I finally got a hold of the Orange Box. And I don't mean the collection of awesome Valve games (which I already had, anyway), I mean the orange box that the DVD of the second Rebuild movie comes in. Which is orange. Very, very orange. o_o

It had its moments, there were a few interesting new scenes (the opening, the field trip, and a few other scattered moments). And of course Asuka is in it. But like the first movie, it also left out a whole lot of crucially important scenes, and most of the changes/additions are, in my opinion, not for the better.

Unsurprisingly, my personal verdict continues to be that none of the subsequent EVA movies hold a candle to the original TV series.

Of course, I am incredibly biased. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Rebuild of Evangelion (SPOILER WARNING)
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 2:05 am 
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Oh yeah. I keep forgetting to post this, but Maldroth passed it to me a few weeks back and it's too great not to share here.

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 Post subject: Re: Rebuild of Evangelion (SPOILER WARNING)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:15 am 
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On the subject of me being incredibly biased, I thought I might post an excerpt from an email I recently sent another friend on this topic.
CWS wrote:
I think my biggest problem with the Rebuild movies is that in far too many ways, they seem to be forcing EVA and its characters into the predictable, by-the-numbers, cookie-cutter mold of Just Another Anime. And that's unbelievably offensive. The thing that made Evangelion such a monumental achievement was the fact that it broke all the rules, it shattered all the conventional methodologies and transcended the very medium of film itself with its brutal honesty. The truth, and what made it so profound, is that at its core it really wasn't even an anime at all. It used some of the trappings of certain genres as a loose framework, but it ultimately did not belong to any defined genre as such. It masqueraded as a traditional SF/mecha anime, but for those who really paid attention, it became apparent by the show's halfway point (if not sooner) that it was really something far deeper and more personal, hiding inside the shell of its audience's expectations. I suppose that's probably the biggest reason for the audience backlash, and it's truly a shame. Because nothing has ever blown me away on the same level as when Anno pretty much literally dropped the curtain at the end of episode 25, and I doubt anything else ever will.

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 Post subject: Re: Rebuild of Evangelion (SPOILER WARNING)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:53 pm 
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I am eagerly awaiting the final two films, I just wish they'd kept the one a year deal going. I'm enjoying the hell out of them because it is different, and I'm not sure where its going this time. Hell, at this point I'd almost rather watch the rebuilds than the origianl series, just because I've not seen it so f'n many times.

I can't agree with your assesment that the characters themselves broke rules of much of anything. Shinji, Asuka, Misato, Gendo and Rei are all pretty stereotypical characters. I'm sure you're going to argue that to infinity and beyond. :P I do agree about the story, mythos, etc tho, they were something incredible at the time, and still is, if you can get anyone to take the time and try to understand it anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: Rebuild of Evangelion (SPOILER WARNING)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:27 am 
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Zanth wrote:
I am eagerly awaiting the final two films, I just wish they'd kept the one a year deal going. I'm enjoying the hell out of them because it is different, and I'm not sure where its going this time. Hell, at this point I'd almost rather watch the rebuilds than the origianl series, just because I've not seen it so f'n many times.
I can understand that, but I guess my gripe can be boiled down to that I feel like I do know where it's going this time, and as such it feels stale and predictable to me.

Zanth wrote:
I can't agree with your assesment that the characters themselves broke rules of much of anything. Shinji, Asuka, Misato, Gendo and Rei are all pretty stereotypical characters. I'm sure you're going to argue that to infinity and beyond. :P I do agree about the story, mythos, etc tho, they were something incredible at the time, and still is, if you can get anyone to take the time and try to understand it anymore.
Anymore? I had a hell of a time getting people to try to understand it back then...not that I ever let that stop me. :lol:

Shinji, Misato, and Asuka were certainly inspired and influenced by common anime/manga archetypes; I don't think anyone who knows anything can dispute that. But the extent to which their personalities, motivations and faults were explored, and the level of depth and dimension they revealed in the process, really was almost unprecedented at the time and there still are not many examples I can think of which approach them. Yes, there are stereotypes which are at least superficially similar, if not more. But I think a lot of those have actually cropped up since Evangelion, because there have been a lot of anime and manga which IMO have tried to rip off EVA in one way or another.

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 Post subject: Re: Rebuild of Evangelion (SPOILER WARNING)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:08 pm 
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I dunno, I guess there were multiple points in the rebuilds that I basically just dropped my jaw and said, "What the fuck?!?" Maybe because I was expecting it to pretty faithfully follow the path the original took and didn't expect some of the huge changes they made.

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Anymore? I had a hell of a time getting people to try to understand it back then...not that I ever let that stop me.


That's fair, but I think its even worse with the younger generation of fans that can't handle much of anything that requires thought. That's what I was getting at moreso by that statement.

I guess I never felt the characters were developed any more than many others of the same stereotype at the time. *shrug* I liked the way they were written, I found then believable, but I guess they didn't much feel like anything new to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Rebuild of Evangelion (SPOILER WARNING)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:45 pm 
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Zanth wrote:
That's fair, but I think its even worse with the younger generation of fans that can't handle much of anything that requires thought. That's what I was getting at moreso by that statement.

Sigh. Kids these days...

Wow. I feel like I aged about ten years just typing that. (goes out to the porch to sit in a rocking chair and grumble to himself)

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 Post subject: Re: Rebuild of Evangelion (SPOILER WARNING)
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:17 pm 
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Eh, I yelled at kids to get off my lawn once. To be fair it was at 2 AM on a Wednesday night, when I had to be to work at 7 AM. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Rebuild of Evangelion (SPOILER WARNING)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:36 am 
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Characters can't really be considered 'stereotypical', anymore, because nearly every different version of every character archetype has been written a couple of hundred times. What makes a character unique and interesting are their circumstances and their attempts to improve them (or make them worse, as some do intentionally), their resulting actions, and their opinion of the consequences.

Evangelion just, as Cylor says, happens to be one of those shows that brutally and realistically depicts how these traumatised characters would act in a broken world that has seen one apocalypse and faces yet more with the coming of each Angel. The whole idea of half the world's population (3 billion approx. if it's the near equivalent of our current population) being wiped out in one blow basically makes me wonder if the world would even work the same way as ours does.

Aside from the whole "Angels fighting giant biomechanical cyborgs" in Tokyo thing, there's a lot that could be very different. My sister recently saw the scene from End of Evangelion where Misato snogs Shinji and tells him that they'll, "do the rest" when he gets back. She could understand the whole idea behind it -- that of Misato trying to spur Shinji to action, possibly of her really having decided she likes him in that way -- yet she also stated the standard "That's kind of fucked up. That's paedophilia, isn't it?"

Is it? We're bringing our morals (or ethics in my case since I mostly lack morals) to the show, we'd assume so. We don't know exactly how the world in Evangelion functions, though. Could be that what Misato MAY be -- nobody knows what she truly meant -- proposing is legally fine in Eva's world, if not morally so.

So, really, what rocks, is the way that characters act on their feelings, on their intentions, to prevent things they don't like from happening, and that this reveals much about the characters, and possibly the world itself.

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Last edited by Loki Kola on Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Rebuild of Evangelion (SPOILER WARNING)
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:48 am 
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See, that's the part I meant when I said I thought the writing and story was good. In my head I kinda differentiate it from the characters themselves when evaluating. I know it all weaves together, but since its being picked apart ANYWAY, why not? ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Rebuild of Evangelion (SPOILER WARNING)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:01 am 
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I have some additional comments I've been meaning to post, but kept forgetting to. :oops:

[Reveal] Spoiler:
  • I think I'd find Mari a lot more interesting had they spent as much time exploring her background as they did on her chest.
  • Which reminds me..."Illustrious"? Really? o_o
  • Asuka and EVA-02 certainly had quite the entrance, and I liked her (one! :( ) scene with Shinji after fighting Sahaquiel. Overall, though, it's kind of astounding to realize that Asuka ultimately got screwed over even worse than she did in the TV series.
  • But on that note, Toji and his little sister definitely made out a lot better.
  • I did like the field trip to the water treatment plant. That was probably my favorite of all the new scenes. Although Kaji pretending to flirt with Shinji was much more creepy than funny.
  • I'm sorry, but the whole dinner party sub-plot was unbelievably stupid.
  • I really dislike the trend in feature-length anime films of playing grossly inappropriate pop ballads in the backdrop of incredibly heavy and/or horrifying scenes. Coincidentally (or not), the first example of this I can think of would also happen to be End of Evangelion, though I'm not certain that's where it actually started. In any case, it bugs me.
  • In stark contrast to the TV series, the "transformations" of EVA-02 and EVA-01 seemed pointless and dumb.
  • In an even starker contrast, Shinji's and EVA-01's battle with Zeruel was nowhere near as climactic and suspenseful as it was in episode 19, where it was arguably the single most intense scene of the entire series.
  • I guess we're not going to see the third Rei this time around. But then, I think Rei herself is an even more completely different character in this series than Asuka is, despite the latter's name change, so...
  • I suspect Kaworu is going to demonstrate knowledge of the events of the TV series and previous movie(s), even though this is supposed to be an entirely different continuity.
  • And...Pirate Asuka. Sigh. :|

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 Post subject: Re: Rebuild of Evangelion (SPOILER WARNING)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:53 am 
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i really enjoyed the rebuild so far


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 Post subject: Re: Rebuild of Evangelion (SPOILER WARNING)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:45 am 
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Revive:

[Reveal] Spoiler:
I've been thinking recently as I wait for this to appear as a complete Blu-Ray boxed set, just imagine how fucking weird it would be if this were actually set after the first series of Evangelion, with the events of the previous series having been reset with the rejection of instrumentality. I remember the Eva fanfic that actually started me writing being based on a similar premise and I've been scrolling through the Eva wiki tonight and wondering just how possible it is. Not exactly expecting it to be, but, Kaworu does say "this time, I will make you happy" which is... weird... given they've apparently not met before in this iteration?


Note: this is mostly musing pieced together after reading the wiki. I've not yet seen Evangelion 2.0

EDIT: I also miss our (heated) debate about Eva.

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 Post subject: Re: Rebuild of Evangelion (SPOILER WARNING)
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 1:25 am 
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So I just watched 3.33 You Can (not) Redo... and... wow... seriously.... it is all sorts of messed up beyond all comprehension. I'm not going to say anything specific about it, well, partially because I have no idea what to even think about saying.

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 Post subject: Re: Rebuild of Evangelion (SPOILER WARNING)
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 6:51 am 
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Zanth wrote:
So I just watched 3.33 You Can (not) Redo... and... wow... seriously.... it is all sorts of messed up beyond all comprehension. I'm not going to say anything specific about it, well, partially because I have no idea what to even think about saying.
Sigh. I suppose now I'll have to watch it for posterity...

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 Post subject: Re: Rebuild of Evangelion (SPOILER WARNING)
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:57 am 
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I keep forgetting to post about this, but I finally saw the third Rebuild movie several weeks ago (thanks to Zanth), and to my surprise, I enjoyed it much more than I expected to. Perhaps it was because it took place entirely outside of the TV show's timeline, or because it was something I could plausibly have seen happen if the TV series had gone in that direction...or, maybe it was simply because it had been quite a while since I'd watched any Evangelion, at all. But I went in expecting to hate it, and to my surprise, I didn't. Oh, don't get me wrong, I still prefer the TV series x10000000. I also hate that goddamn eye patch, and thought it was slightly unfortunate that nobody'd shot Ritsuko yet. But I certainly liked it a great deal more than the first two movies.

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Last edited by CWS on Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
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