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 Post subject: Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:22 am 
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So, in a national referendum, Great Britain has apparently voted to withdraw from the European Union.

Personally, I think this is great news; the EU was a terrible idea to begin with, and in the larger context of everything else that's going on in the world, I think for the British people to reassert their national sovereignty is a good thing. There will probably be some short-term bumps in the road, but in the long run, I think this will prove to have been the right decision.

Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:48 am 
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Wow. British Prime Minister David Cameron is resigning over the move. :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:55 pm 
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CWS wrote:
So, in a national referendum, Great Britain has apparently voted to withdraw from the European Union.

Personally, I think this is great news; the EU was a terrible idea to begin with, and in the larger context of everything else that's going on in the world, I think for the British people to reassert their national sovereignty is a good thing. There will probably be some short-term bumps in the road, but in the long run, I think this will prove to have been the right decision.

Thoughts?


It's a catastrophe. It threatens European stability in ways not seen since the World Wars. A divided Europe means more wars, more instability and more misery.

On top of that, Scotland is threatening another independence referendum; it REALLY did NOT want to leave the EU. Northern Ireland looks like it could follow suit. This may well be the beginning of the end for the UK! And you are saying this is a GOOD thing?!

Mark my words, the UK is going to rue this day.


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 Post subject: Re: Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:02 pm 
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CWS wrote:
Wow. British Prime Minister David Cameron is resigning over the move. :shock:


Of course the silly pollock is resigning! He stupidly lead Britons blindfolded into this godforsaken mess! He'll go down in history as the man who killed the UK, and if we're exceptionally unlucky, the EU too.


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 Post subject: Re: Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:00 pm 
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snowman1989 wrote:
CWS wrote:
So, in a national referendum, Great Britain has apparently voted to withdraw from the European Union.

Personally, I think this is great news; the EU was a terrible idea to begin with, and in the larger context of everything else that's going on in the world, I think for the British people to reassert their national sovereignty is a good thing. There will probably be some short-term bumps in the road, but in the long run, I think this will prove to have been the right decision.

Thoughts?


It's a catastrophe. It threatens European stability in ways not seen since the World Wars. A divided Europe means more wars, more instability and more misery.

On top of that, Scotland is threatening another independence referendum; it REALLY did NOT want to leave the EU. Northern Ireland looks like it could follow suit. This may well be the beginning of the end for the UK! And you are saying this is a GOOD thing?!

Mark my words, the UK is going to rue this day.

I thought you were in favor of Scottish independence?

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 Post subject: Re: Brexit
PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:25 pm 
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Back in 2014 I did back Scotland's independence. Namely because conservative England tends to vote against Scotland's more liberal interests, and because of England's larger population, it tended to always get its way. The failure was disappointing, but it wasn't anything world changing.

But I think Brexit will be the last straw. Scotland was grudgingly willing to keep to the status quo because of fears that it would have to renegotiate EU membership. But now the UK's left, against Scotland's wishes.


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 Post subject: Re: Brexit
PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:08 am 
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snowman1989 wrote:
It's a catastrophe. It threatens European stability in ways not seen since the World Wars. A divided Europe means more wars, more instability and more misery.

On top of that, Scotland is threatening another independence referendum; it REALLY did NOT want to leave the EU. Northern Ireland looks like it could follow suit. This may well be the beginning of the end for the UK! And you are saying this is a GOOD thing?!
"More wars"? Are you expecting the UK and France to toss nukes at each other over this or something? I think you may be jumping from "instability" to "upheaval" just a little too eagerly :P

But seriously, this is definitely a good thing. Since the European Union failed to convince the majority of the United Kingdom to support them, maybe the EU needs to step up its game. And if Scotland and/or Northern Ireland want to abandon the UK over this, good for them; they should have as much freedom to leave the UK as the UK had to leave the EU.

Growth is impossible without change, and change by definition introduces instability. And between the EU, the UK as a whole, and the individual countries comprising the UK; someone is bound to come out ahead here, even if it's in the form of learning from what happened to one of the others.

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 Post subject: Re: Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:05 am 
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The Phiend wrote:
More wars"? Are you expecting the UK and France to toss nukes at each other over this or something? I think you may be jumping from "instability" to "upheaval" just a little too eagerly :P


You aren't familiar with European history, are you? Periods of peace in Europe like the one it currently enjoys are unheard of. Unprecedented. Before the end of WWII there was constant conflict. Why do you think so many people flocked to the US from Europe, especially before independence? They were escaping Europe's endless wars. I don't know about you, but I'd rather stay in a perfectly settled country rather than take a huge gamble and go settling in the American wilderness with no prospect of ever seeing my extended family or friends again.

It's only been a few days, and already we're getting tremors in Ireland. Nobody wants a return to the militarised borders of the Troubles, yet we're on our way back to square one because of Brexit.

The Phiend wrote:
But seriously, this is definitely a good thing. Since the European Union failed to convince the majority of the United Kingdom to support them, maybe the EU needs to step up its game. And if Scotland and/or Northern Ireland want to abandon the UK over this, good for them; they should have as much freedom to leave the UK as the UK had to leave the EU.


It's never that simple. The UK has stood for over 300 years. Scotland and N. Ireland are deeply intertwined and connected with England and Wales. Any divorce is going to be very messy. Again, I have to remind you that peace in Europe is unusual and conflict is the historical norm. Scotland is an old rival. And the Irish fucking hate the English for colonising them. A breakup is going to bring back these old resentments and turn back the clock on everything that's been achieved over the last 100 years.

In regards to the EU, the vote was a near even split. 52% voted to leave, 48% voted to stay. Not a very convincing majority at all. Most who voted to leave were from England, especially outside London, and the average age was 50 and over. Those voting to stay were under the age of 50. The elderly won't have to live with this decision nearly as long as the young.

The Phiend wrote:
Growth is impossible without change, and change by definition introduces instability. And between the EU, the UK as a whole, and the individual countries comprising the UK; someone is bound to come out ahead here, even if it's in the form of learning from what happened to one of the others.


Here at least, I can agree with you. I also think the EU needs major reform and greater democratic input, because the way it does things right now is no longer acceptable. But I think the UK has done irreparable damage to itself. From here on out, Britain - if it somehow survives Scotland's next referendum - will have voted itself into global irrelevance. Very soon London will cease to be one of the world's financial centres, because why bother going to Britain when you have a much larger and more prosperous market just across the Channel? The UK could have had a voice in reshaping the EU, but since it's left, it will have no say in what happens next.


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 Post subject: Re: Brexit
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:20 am 
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snowman1989 wrote:
The Phiend wrote:
Growth is impossible without change, and change by definition introduces instability. And between the EU, the UK as a whole, and the individual countries comprising the UK; someone is bound to come out ahead here, even if it's in the form of learning from what happened to one of the others.
Here at least, I can agree with you. I also think the EU needs major reform and greater democratic input, because the way it does things right now is no longer acceptable. But I think the UK has done irreparable damage to itself. From here on out, Britain - if it somehow survives Scotland's next referendum - will have voted itself into global irrelevance. Very soon London will cease to be one of the world's financial centres, because why bother going to Britain when you have a much larger and more prosperous market just across the Channel? The UK could have had a voice in reshaping the EU, but since it's left, it will have no say in what happens next.
Unless, of course, the EU disintegrates entirely; I've been seeing a number of reports that this could potentially cause a domino effect with many other nations seriously considering abandoning ship. Like most of Scandinavia, for starters.

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