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 Post subject: Christchurch Mosque Terror Attacks
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:57 am 
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It's been a while since I was here, and I wish it were under better circumstances. :cry: As you can tell from the title, Christchurch was just this afternoon the target for a co-ordinated attack on our Muslim community by white supremacists who invaded two mosques during prayer and opened fire with AR-15 assault rifles. One of the shooters was sick enough to film as he gunned down dozens of people. The current death toll is around 49, and may yet grow as many more are critically wounded. Bomb squads have also disabled several IEDs found in one of their vehicles.

This was a mass shooting the likes of which New Zealand has never seen before. It's also our worst ever terrorist attack, and before today I could only look at the Rainbow Warrior bombing that killed one person for past reference. I'm still not able to completely accept this just happened. This kind of thing just doesn't. Happen Here. I feel I needed to emphasise that. It doesn't. Happen. Here. We're one of the most peaceful countries in the world, far from any civil strife or foreign invasion. No emoticons or words can describe how I or anyone else is feeling right now.

Christchurch can't catch a break anymore. First an earthquake damn near destroys it, and now this!


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 Post subject: Re: Christchurch Mosque Terror Attacks
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:39 am 
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Well, by all accounts, this is a pretty horrific massacre (to put it mildly) and the people who planned and executed it are both cowards and pure evil. It also sounds like the one guy who did the filming was motivated by a desire for Internet notoriety, as much as or more than anything else. Truly sick.

I have to confess that there's a question I'd like to ask, but I don't think now is the right time for it.

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Last edited by CWS on Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Added a second link.


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 Post subject: Re: Christchurch Mosque Terror Attacks
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:00 pm 
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CWS wrote:
I have to confess that there's a question I'd like to ask, but I don't think now is the right time for it.


I woke up hoping this was a bad dream. No such luck. This actually happened. But I'm not going to shy away. What's the question?

Is it about that piece of shit's motivations? I couldn't possibly care less about what he thought. He's a senseless monster with no rational thought process in that reptilian brain of his. That's all anyone needs to know about him. There was no reason for what he did, like that girl who famously shot up her school because she "didn't like Mondays." People like them don't operate on things like logic or reason. In movie terms:



Maybe the question is about our gun laws? After yesterday, sweeping changes are inevitable. It'd be political suicide to not do anything like you'd see in the US. It's looking likely we'll be coming into line with Australia, especially since this massacre was even more lethal than Port Arthur. Currently our laws are some of the most relaxed in the developed world (outside the US), and we have around 1.2 million guns in circulation in a population of just under 5 million. Mass shootings are extremely rare here, and while we have an avid hunting culture here, guns are not considered integral to our identity.

Is the question about the frequency of terror attacks? They're even rarer than the mass shootings. Since our foundation as a country, only three incidents have resulted in fatalities. The first was the Wanganui Computer Centre Bombing in 1982 that killed the suicide bomber and no one else. The Rainbow Warrior Bombing, perpetrated by French secret agents in 1985 killed a photographer. And the last one was this horror show. Let that sink in.

The Muslim community here? They're a tiny minority of around 50,000, and they've never given us any trouble. There were two separate incidents involving a Somali refugee attempting to hijack a plane (they obviously failed), but they are the exceptions. By and large, the local community here is friendly and open with us.

Our intelligence community? They've got some fucking explaining to do after they failed to raise any red flags over this man and his accomplices. From what I've heard, they were focused mainly on potential Islamic extremists, while ignoring our white supremacists who they considered to be a joke. No one's laughing now.


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 Post subject: Re: Christchurch Mosque Terror Attacks
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:45 am 
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The question was actually a lot simpler than any of those things: What do you think ought to be done in response to this?

I'm not trying to play "gotcha" in any way, but in the context of our previous discussions about similar incidents in the U.S., I'm simply curious.

(As for the supposed motivations for the attacks, I think I already touched on how absurd they appear to have been.)

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 Post subject: Re: Christchurch Mosque Terror Attacks
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:08 am 
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CWS wrote:
The question was actually a lot simpler than any of those things: What do you think ought to be done in response to this?

I'm not trying to play "gotcha" in any way, but in the context of our previous discussions about similar incidents in the U.S., I'm simply curious.

(As for the supposed motivations for the attacks, I think I already touched on how absurd they appear to have been.)


First thing we need to do is find out if this guy and his potential accomplices were acting alone or are part of a wider cell. Odds are this is an isolated incident, but better safe than sorry. Police and our intelligence agencies are already on it, and Australia is getting involved since one of their citizens conducted this atrocity.

Second, we crack the FUCK. DOWN. On these white supremacist pieces of dogshit. We need to make an example out of them. :x For too long Christchurch has been a scene for Neo-Nazis and Skinheads, and with the War on Terror and Islamophobia on the rise, and with this attack, they're more emboldened now than ever. We need to show that this kind of behaviour will not be tolerated, not from them, not from Islamic extremists, not from anyone. We treat these groups as hostile from now on, as enemies of all Kiwis, because they are hostile to our culture and our way of life. They've demonstrated that they'll show no mercy or compassion, so we must excise them like the cancer that they are. We can no longer see them as harmless clowns.

Third, we follow Australia's example and toughen up our gun laws. The government is already announcing its intention to ban semi-automatic rifles, and nobody is complaining so far. I'd ban military grade hardware like assault rifles, and set up a proper national gun registry, which amazingly, we do not possess. Currently we focus more on licenses and police background checks. The irony is that son of a bitch would never have been able to get the guns he had in his native Australia, but found it embarassingly easy to obtain them here. Will our proposed new laws eliminate all gun deaths? Of course not. The idea is mitigation, to cut down as many potential future deaths as possible. I don't ever want to see police in this country carrying guns, that isn't what we are. We don't want to be afraid of police.

Fourth, we need a total rethink of how our intelligence services handle and percieve threats to this country. We've been focusing on Muslim extremists, even though none of them have ever attacked us, or expressed any serious interest in attacking us, while ignoring our "clowns." No more. By all means, we should keep an eye out for radical Muslims, but we need to treat far left and far right groups as more serious threats. And of course we bolster our cybersecurity suites and put eyes into the Dark Web where this butcher announced he was going to do this depraved barbarism.

Fifth, and most importantly, we should not change who we are. We continue life as it was before this tragedy. We were one of the safest countries in the world before, and we will continue to be one of the safest countries in the world. We show solidarity with the Muslim community, and we look out for one another.


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 Post subject: Re: Christchurch Mosque Terror Attacks
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:50 am 
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The death toll now stands at 50, making this the worst massacre in New Zealand since the Land Wars of the 19th Century. The terrorist who did this will stand trial in early April, and it appears he was acting alone in these killings. The other suspects found have been released or charged with lesser crimes unrelated to the killings.

I've never once uttered the man's name or shown pictures of him, and I intend never to do so. I want this man forgotten, and thrown into a dark pit to live out the rest of his days alone with the knowledge of what he's done. Similarly, official appearances of him have been censored, and the Prime Minister refuses to acknowledge his name either. Instead, we in New Zealand choose to remember the lives he so callously, so heartlessly stole. An artist has even painted a mural of Naeem Rashid, a Pakistani who tried to tackle the shooter.


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Wishing you were still with us friend.



Never thought we'd see a Muslim prayer in Parliament, either


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 Post subject: Re: Christchurch Mosque Terror Attacks
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:48 am 
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I heard about that several days ago; the guy who tried to tackle the shooter, that is, but his name wasn't being reported at that point.

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 Post subject: Re: Christchurch Mosque Terror Attacks
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:56 pm 
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Tomorrow we'll be observing two minutes silence for the fallen; the sheer magnitude and unthinkable nature of this crime makes the traditional one minute feel inadequate. Around the same time, Radio NZ and TVNZ will both broadcast the Islamic call to prayer. As I said at the start of the thread, this kind of thing just doesn't happen here, and yet it has. :cry:

But there is cause for hope. Mosques across the country are opening their doors to the public; well, they've technically always been open to the public, but with what's happened, there may be more public awareness of that fact. And this is an important first step to ensuring that a crime this heinous never happens again. Islam needs to be demystified. People need to get to know the Muslim community and what they believe. You don't need to agree with them, I myself have issues with the religion and will never be a convert. But the antidote to fear is familiarity, because if you don't understand something, you are naturally going to be afraid of it, you're going to hate it, and eventually someone is going to lash out. Familiarity will also help us see what is normal in the community, and what is not, which could help pick out potential troublemakers.


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 Post subject: Re: Christchurch Mosque Terror Attacks
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:28 am 
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With multi-partisan support, PM Jacinda Ardern has now publicly stated that all automatic and semi-automatic guns in New Zealand will be banned, expected by 11 April. High capacity magazines and modifications that allow guns to fire at an automatic, semi-automatic or "near" semi-automatic rate will also be banned. Gun owners who possess these weapons will be given a period of amnesty to hand them in and receive compensation as part of a mandatory buy-back scheme, similar to what Australia did after Port Arthur. If their weapons aren't handed over before this period ends, they will be prosecuted; the current law says the fine is $4000 and/or 3 years in prison, but these are going to get harsher. These are only the initial changes, as she has confirmed that more reforms are on the way to close off loopholes that the terrorist was able to exploit.

I'm hoping that the government goes further and restores the national gun registry as well. The decision to basically throw the whole thing out in favour of just registering gun owners was one of the biggest mistakes we've ever made, because now we have no idea how many guns there actually are in this country, or who has them. I'm sure most gun owners can be trusted, but their armouries have been broken into in the past, or they've sold their weapons to someone else, or handed them down to other family members, and all of this means these guns can easily go off the radar.


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 Post subject: Re: Christchurch Mosque Terror Attacks
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:00 pm 
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Well, I hate to have to point this out, but this was one of the shooter's main stated goals.

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 Post subject: Re: Christchurch Mosque Terror Attacks
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:19 pm 
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CWS wrote:
Well, I hate to have to point this out, but this was one of the shooter's main stated goals.


Did you know the Nazis were avid conservationists? Therefore conservation must be evil! :roll:

I seriously hope you didn't read that piece of shit's rag. By now you should know manifestos only serve to divide and set people at one another's throats. Using the paper to wipe my ass would be like coating it in gold.

Furthermore, I'm going to be blunt with you. I think I can speak on behalf of all Kiwis, and not just myself, when I say that we really don't give a shit what you or the rest of America says about our gun reforms. You've had decades to sort your own house, and it's clear that no amount of bodies will ever be enough to get you to change. Owning a gun is a privilege to be earned through training and trust. They are not toys, they are designed to kill.


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 Post subject: Re: Christchurch Mosque Terror Attacks
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:12 am 
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snowman1989 wrote:
CWS wrote:
Well, I hate to have to point this out, but this was one of the shooter's main stated goals.
Did you know the Nazis were avid conservationists? Therefore conservation must be evil! :roll:

I seriously hope you didn't read that piece of shit's rag. By now you should know manifestos only serve to divide and set people at one another's throats. Using the paper to wipe my ass would be like coating it in gold.

Furthermore, I'm going to be blunt with you. I think I can speak on behalf of all Kiwis, and not just myself, when I say that we really don't give a shit what you or the rest of America says about our gun reforms. You've had decades to sort your own house, and it's clear that no amount of bodies will ever be enough to get you to change. Owning a gun is a privilege to be earned through training and trust. They are not toys, they are designed to kill.
I honestly was not trying to be antagonistic with you, but okay then. I guess we'll find out soon enough if your government's knee-jerk reaction to this ends up inviting more violence. I sincerely hope it doesn't, but we'll see.

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 Post subject: Re: Christchurch Mosque Terror Attacks
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:13 am 
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CWS wrote:
I honestly was not trying to be antagonistic with you, but okay then. I guess we'll find out soon enough if your government's knee-jerk reaction to this ends up inviting more violence. I sincerely hope it doesn't, but we'll see.


We've given more thought than you give us credit for. There've been attempts at gun reform for years, but they were either blocked or watered down by the gun lobby. Not this time. :x

Semis and autos are banned, but other gun types remain legal, assuming you've earned a licence. If all guns had been banned, there'd be considerable resistance as farmers and hunters kind of need a gun of some sort to do their jobs. Not to mention that pest control needs guns in areas where planting poison bait isn't an option. The bans are aimed at gun types that (a) have no practical use in this country outside the police or military, and (b) could cause the most casualties in the shortest amount of time. A bolt-action rifle in the arms of a murderer is significantly less dangerous to crowds of people than an assault rifle that can spray dozens of rounds all over the place in seconds without reloading.

Last Friday was an abherration. We generally have low gun crime rates, but we want to make sure that what that terrorist did can never be repeated.


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